H
AMERICAN
X TH
vewtibut A. II r the
door
y. And l there any opening la the'
door? A. There it a
g An opening In the d.r to perk
thunieh? ... A i come In the
veettlmle then I the etterlor par
lot are there. Then when ahe wants
to me th Inmates or nmtticia, anil wi
on. as are suppimed id Ih what I
railed an enclosed order, the nUtcr.
(the ouulde atstrr, the riternal),
fives the tvrfvaKf to a amtcr who la
enclosed and that ta mported to the
lnthrr Superior.
y. Wall then, to nim.lt all up,
thei no nx'lhod of gUlng Into
that building at all until you have
pinned through theee two, until the
meeitage la tatutd through the two
door-keeper, and the diaira have Im-mi
nlocked and they have been allowed I
to enter? A. Not the front door
where the slater atop.
Q. Yet there la an entrance enter
ing the cloister? A. There la the
outalde entrance, and then there la
the yard; the bark gate optm Into
their yard.
Q. And th la yard you aay la fenced?
A. Yra.
Q. So that In either way the egrea
la ahut off? One way by the
cloister, and the other way by the
fer.ee? A. Ye.
0. Now what are you rule thora,
with reference to the Inmate com
municating with each other or talk
ing with each other? A. What do
you mean by that? To allow them to
talk prlvate'y?
Q Yra. privately. A. Well, that Is
a rather delicate question to put We
can't always allow our Inmate to
talk privately together,
y. Y'ou can't? A. No, certainly
Bit
y. Now In this particular ward
that the plaintiff waa In, ware they
ai. in the wash-room, all In one large
room. In this Iron lug root a? A. Thoy
aie not always In omm room; they
have a claaa room I toftf you.
y. How many sister did you have
In charge of that Aeawu-tment. A.
Soi l tlium po e and sometime loss?
y We 1. ab ut bi.w many? A. Uon
Shiiy thiw.
Q. Did that include Suiter Zoph
rli.e or not?
A. Generally three In ttie washroom
department (if I had that number).
Slater Zephrlne beside.
0. WERE THESE INMATES IN
THIS DEPARTMENT AMiOWKD TO
TALK WITH EACH OTHER? A.
NOT IF WIS COULD AVOID IT.
Q WERE THET ALLOWED TO
TELL EACH OTHER THEIR
NAMES? A NOT THIOIR NAMES
NOR THEIR HISTORIES. j
Q. Nor their histories? A. Cer
tainly not
Q. Were they allowed any book to
read? A. Ccr a'nly.
Q What n ture? A. Any kind of
good literature.
y. Were there any regular stu
dents taught there? A. Mont or the
gl'la there e'e over age. didn't come
there for study,
Q Did you teach; did you give any
Instructions In any atutlle. A. Yea.
fo a time they got It.
Q, Well, during the time the plain
tiff was In that department? A. in
the wash-house department therj was
a very nhort time 10 study.
Q. Only what? A. En the w:iah-hnu-e
department they weren't, they
hadn't time to st"dy, tut they came
he-e for reforma'ion.
O, Well, I krow and you siy Ihey
didn't study? A. We didn't rocelve
them with tbat Intention to send
trem to srhocl.
Q Y'ou kept them tbtare for work?
A. Kept them there to fry to reform
them.
O. Well, whak way 41 d. yiw reform
them. A. Bv advice, hf example.
Q. What time In thn moaning did
they commence to work? A. The
work'ne hoim depended very much
on the rush of work.
0. Well, what waa the usual hour
for g-t'ing up? A. The entire house
hold frets up at 5 in the summer and
ha'f post 6 in the winter.
Q. When do thev commence work?
A. Well, that would ho pretty hard tc
loca'e. It often varies; there is no -art,
et hour for it Sometime 8.
Bomet'mes 7, and so on.
O. Well, you wruld put It from 7 to
8, then, would you?
A. They are rare'y at work at 7; I
could better put it at 8.
Q. And he work until what hour
for d'nner? Well.
' ft How Ions a time are tVy given
for dinner?' A. Well, the rule is rec
reations until half past 1. They
somttmes go In and finish their
work when they are hurried o ha73
the work to do anyone that under
stands housekrepl'-E knows that laua
drv work has to b sent out n cer
tain time, ard when we make con
tracts for laundry work It has to be
Q. It has to ne done on tha Jot?
A. It has to be sert at a certain time.
Q. What time do they quit In he eve
ning? A. At 6 o'clock.
Q. Do they do any work after sup
per? Sometimes.
Q. Can you tell me when the plain
tiff entered your Institution? A. When
she entered? j
Q. Can you give me the date? A. !
I can give you tr-e date, I think; to
the best of my knowledge it was the
first of December.
Q. What year? A. Now, the year I
am not sure about; I didn't lo k it
p I have It on the records.
Q. Well, am I right in paying It
was in 1S94? Do you think?
A. You miKht be; I wouldn't be
pofitiva.
Q. Do you remember about the
length of time she waa there. A. She
left I thfnk It was In February, If I
am not mistaken.
Q. You think she waa there about
how long? A. It waa over a yeir,
anyway, a year and two months, I
wouldn't be positive.
Q. NOW, WHEN MAIL. COMKS
THERE ADDRESSED TO ANY OF
J5 INMATES OF THIS WARD,
WHAT WAS DONE WITH IT? A.
ALL I HIS MAIL THAT FA53KH
thkuuuh this institution to,
this iinotaiev passes TnKOUun
MY HANDS
Q. AND IS OPENfto BY YOU? A.
CERTAINLY.
Q. AND READ? A. Af READ
Q. Well, what do yoa do witfl
jL Give It to th Innate.
this
IMli.V.
I Q. In every Instance? A. la every
1 iiivtance i iclv It la th lir to give
It to her. It depends. If the m II
mniM frtim on fr.uu whom
should not receive It
(J. Yi: ire th Judge rf ht? A.
If It nnir from a rar at r a r'a
tlve m the lxi j kIk ai to who
thixilil receive It
y Yon are the het Judge and you
j art on that? A. Certainly.
Q. And if you think I ImToper. It
la not delivered? A. O raln'y. If I
know the mall doe not come from a
premier perann.
Q And you are the al judge of
that? A. 1 am the sole Judge.
Q. When an Inmate win ties to end
out mall, what la done thn? A. Send
It out If It la to relat ve and f r d.
y. And (1xm h go through our
handa? A. It ,-oea through my hrnds,
certainly.
Q. And supposing you ih'nk it con
tains matter that la not proper in anr
way. what I done then? A. I doi t
nnderatand what you moan by "not
proper."
y. Well, I aay, aupnoa'ng you think
that the matter In the letter or any
thing that Is there, la not proper lo be
POUR A P A Ifthadof-itllCella-n
sent out, what do you do? A. Of
course. If It 1 not proper. It doesn't
go cut
Q. And you are the sole J"dte of
what la Improper? A. Our Inmates en
do very Improper things.
Q. AND KO IT JUST DEPENDS
Ui-ON YOUR WILL WHAT GOES
OUT AND WHAT COMES IN? A.
IT IS PRACTICALLY 80.
Q. And you use your Judgment of
that and thin la done with r.f rence
to every Inmate In that Institution?
A. Especially those la the refo. ma
lory. ,
y. Y'ou aay there was about 40 or 19
In each department? There are about
0 there that you carried on at that
time? A. Hardly as many now.
Q. Well, but It varies, I suppose;
sometime more and sometimes less.
Now, during the time we are i peak
ing, how many, something like that
(we don't care for Just the figures, I
don't expect you to be accurate) was
the plaintiff ever out of thla institu
tion to your knowledge? A. She went
away heratilf once.
Q. Yoa, she went away herself once.
A. Ye sir.
Q. About when was that, do you
remember? A. I don't rmembr ex
actly the date. I think It was In May
a year ago. The date I don t quite re
member, It made no Impression.
Q. It waa along In the month of
May after she came the e, wasn't It,
the following summer sometime? A.
Well. It ma be a year af.er, .1 wou'd
not be positive.
Q. How long was she out of that
place? A. Just long enough to get
back, that la all.
Q. Well, what waa done to g t her
back? A. That I can't exac.ly ex
plain, as I am not the sister in that
department, and know little If any
thing of the affair until after It was
all over.
Q. Well, as you found It out, right
away afterward, what was the? A.
Well, as I remember having heard of
it, this girl went out (the slater hav
ing an intimation or knowing wat
was her intention) left thi chapel,
went down, broke through the clo s
ter window, and went escxped
three days after she
Q. Well, Just there; now you ray
ehe was only out Just loi g enot gh to
get back. Now what means were
taken to bring her back, do you re
member? A. Well, as I had heard, the sister
in charge told two of the girls to go
after her not with the intention of
brlngtnir her back, but telling her to
take off the black dress she wor3 rnd
we would give her an outfit for the
world.
y. Well, did they bring her back?
A. She r&me back with them.
Q. Well, ehe came back anyway? A.
She came back.
Q. What did you do when she came
back? A. I don't know that there was
anything done.
y. Do you know whether during
that time, when she broke out trat
window there, that ehe Injured her
self in any way? A. I heard she cut
her hand.
Q. Was your attention ever called
to the fact? A. Oh, no, I understood
it was a mere scratch of some kind.
Q. Did you ever punish any inmates
out there for escaping or attempting
to escape? A. Did I?
Q. Well, were they ever punished
there? A. I have never punished
them.
Q. Well, whatever sister Zephrlne
does there in its' Institution she does
under your au.hortly. A. Certainly.
Q. How do they punish cu there?
A. Y'ou are not to lose sight of the
fact that we keep a ref rmatory we
have no academy out there.
Q. No. I am not finding fault with
your institution.
A. We keep a reformatory for way
ward girls and incorrlglbles. The
only punishment that I allowed, gave
simply what we call a tick drees, that
Is put on when they are very Incor
rigible, use obscene language, talk ob
scenely to each other, use blaspv,era
our words, and anything of that kind:
a tick drees la put on them, made of
common gunny-sack. That Is put
over their dress. Or their drfsi Is
turned wrong-side out. Or, if they are
very obscene, they are kept aloof from
the others, as much aa we can do It
Q. But still they are all, of this de
partment In one lirga room? A. Un
der the supervision of the sisters.
And I told you we don't allow them to
talk together If we can avoid It for
that very reason.
Q. Now, when they go "up to their
dormitory to sleep, where do they
sleep? A. In single beds.
Q. Each In a single bed? A. Each
in a single bed.
Q. ARE THEY ALLOWED TO
TALK THERE? A NOT IN THE
DORMITORY. IT MUST BE) ABSO
LUTE SILENCE
Q. IT MUST BE LOUD ENOUGH
SO THE STSTKRS CAN HEAR IT?
A. YES, SIR.
q It would not be about themselves
or about their history?
A. Certainly not about their history.
Q. And how about their name? in
there, do they carry their real names?
A. No sir.
o what do voi do? A. Whan a
yun girl to placed la oar depart
ment by her parent of guardian, the
I placed there Urauie
Q. Well, that la not what I want
I don't rare. Hut I say. do you gl e
them a different name? A. W g ve
them a different name to save their
families.
Mr. Hutta: Will. I move to atrike
that out I move to strike out "to
aave their famillea."
The Court: S:ricken out.
y What name did you give the
plaintiff? A. She went under the
name two d fferent name. She wai
Adelnlde when Onrt she came, and
afterwards, when she received thU
(onarrate dr, us that tb a-iked of
me so earnea.ly ana received the
name of lrvtta.
y. I.oretta; la that the name she
kept until ehe left there? A. Yra.
y. When old she leave the Inst tu
Hon? A. I think it waa in February.
I am not positive as to the date. I
don't know the date.
Q. Well, when ah left, did any
person come and demand her?
A. I Oon't know whether thev de
manded her.
Q. Did any one else come after her?
A. Simply came and asked.
Q. Who was it? A. If I heard the
tory right, two gentlemen came first
claiming they were couilns
Q. Who were they? A. I don't know
their names. Claiming that they ware
cousins, I think. I am not positive of
that.
Q. Well, did you Inquire? A. The
slater went back and asked. Thev
said they were cousins I believe
cousins, aa well as I remember. I
was not the sister who listened to
them.
Q. But this was commun'catrd to
you by the sister? A. This Is what I
heard.
Q. Well, did you deliver her up to
them? A. The sister did I didn't see
her.
Q. Waa that the first time that any
body came there? A. The first time
that I know of except Mrs. Root
Q. Well, from your the wav trat
business Is done there, the communi
cations from the inmates eeneral 7
paas through in that ward passed
through Sister Zephrlne? A. Yes.
Q. You passed throu-h eich ward
how frequently? A. Well, ence or
twice a week.
Q. Now, when you go through there,
what la the usual ceremony? A. I
generally go to see them on Sunda s;
as a general thing I see them all. In
the class-room together.
Q. That Is, you mean, by this class
room A. The recreation room.
Q. Recreation room, or wherj they
do their Ironing? A. Oh, no, no no.
They bad a large cla?a school-room.
Q. What takes place when you met
them- there? A. Why, they say
"Good morning" to me, and I s y
"Good morning" to them; thre is
nothing more than a pl aint word.
I alt down and they all congregate
around me and talk and have a pleas
ant time.
Q. Do you sit upon anything does
It have have you any throne, aa you
call It? A. There Is no throne. I will
assure you of that.
Q. Don't they call It a throne? A.
There is a chair, not quite aa elevated
as this.
Q. And they congregate around
that? A. They all sit around me.
Q. You call that that is called the
throne, Isn't It? A. That is the
name the children give It.
Q. Then what do you do when they
get around you? A. Talk to them
pleasantly.
Q. You give a ceremony In which
you bless them; isn't that so? A.
(Laughing). There Is no ceremony
about It
Q. Well, what do you do? A. As
I told you, they congregate around
me; when they come up to that throne
they don't come up for my blesBlng, J
assure you.
Q. Now Is there not any time when
they are compelled to kneel before
you? A. They are never compelled.
Q. Well, they do, don't they? A.
They fo It of their own free will.
Q. Isn't It a rule that they should?
A. No, not exactly a rule. There Is
no written rule for It
Q. Whenever you go through this
Institution Isn't It customary for
all to kneel down when you go by?
A. To kneel down when I go by?
Q. Yes. A. Certainly not
Q. Every one In that Institution
stands up when you go through the
room? A. They don't have to, but
they do It out of respect It Is the cus
tom. Q. It Is a custom, and It Is a cus
tom that Is followed universally isn't
ltf A. No, It Is dying out, very
much.
Q. Now was there any distinction
made between these two reforma
tories? A. Only In regard to the
work.
Q. Well, the place where the ward
that the plaintiff was In was what waa
known as the criminal ward, for a long
time wasn't It? A. It was known as
that when we got the city convicts.
Q. When did you cease taking pris
oners from the c'ty of St Paul, to that
Institution? A. I think the Court
knows that better than I do. I think
It was about two years ago, I wouldn't
be positive. Two years In March, 1
think.
Q. Up to the tire you ceased tak
ing them, did you confine them In this
ward? A. Yea, elr, that was their
department
Q. And has the management of the
wards, so far as the Inmates are con
cerned, been the same as before and
since that time A. They allow
greater liberty now, we are not re
sponsible to the olty for the convicts.
We are not responsible to the city for
convicts, so of course there is greater
liberty In this department now the
same as the other reformatory, but
that belongs to the Institution.
Q. I mean as to the working hours
and as to the food, and all such things,
is the same treatment that there was
at that time? A. It has always been
uniform.
Q. Now up until about two years
ago, you say you confined prisoners
there from the city? A. Indeed I
don't remember.
Q. You wouldn't know from your
books? A. Certainly: If I should con
sult the books, f would know.
Q. Well, have you them with youT
A. I have not
Q. Yon know Z tnbpoenaed yen to j
bring the books? A. The city pris
oners' books?
Q. Yes. A. I haven't them with
me. I have the c)aa books of the re
formatory, but I haven't the city
prisoners' book.
Q. Did you keep them under lock
and key, everybody In there? Y'e,
but Is there any question but what
they are kept under lock and key? A.
The doors are locked, certainly.
Q. And have 'heae Inmate permis
sion to go out it large In this ward?
A. Go out at large?
Q. Yea. A. Why no.
Q. I mean outside, anywhere? A.
Oh yea. they have their own yards.
O. Y'es, but the yard la fenced In
and escape Is practically lmnoasible.
lan't It? A. They are not permitted
to ro outside the rrounds of the House
of the Good Shenherd.
O. Go where they wish? A. Why,
of course not. How could we keen a
distinction between the reformatories
and young Innocent children and Mag.
dalenes. when we allowed them to go
at large? If they were mixed alto
gether they needn't come to us to be
reformed.
O. Are they permlttted to have any
vttors In there that they want? A.
Why. certainly not
O. Well, who says whether they
can come or not A. I renerally fol
low Ihe dictates of their narenta The
dictate to me.
O. It rents with yon. Do you al
ways let the relative ee them? A.
As a general thing, always.
O. Alone? A. In the parlors.
O. Tio Is present? A. A sister.
O. There must be then, a slater
present, to overnear the conversation?
A. There Is a sister, always with an
inmate, when she roea to the parlor,
nies reoueetpd hv the narents that
tber wont to see her alone.
O. Otherwise the sister la there,
and the conversation, under rule,
must be audible to the sinter? a.
That is the rule In the lnMtut1on
and they are told that before they
enter. They know the r'
Institution before they enter, that Is,
the parents do.
O. And these Inmate know that
when they enter that parlor? A.
I don't know whether their parents
tell them or not.
O. I say the Inmates know tht the
sister must hear this conversation
when they enter Into the or1nr? A.
Well, we donft make arrangements
verv often with inmates themselves.
Q. They don't cut much figure?
A. It Is generally their parents or
guardians who brine them to us. or
some lady Interested In their refor
mation. O. Suppose there Is no narent or
guardian comes there, then how Is It?
A. Then the rules are exp'ained to
them when they come in. and they
have to sign a paper. If thev come,
and ask me to enter, themselves.
Mr. Butts: I move to strike out
that
O. T am not tslktne: about when
they enter the institution, I am talk
ing when thev ente. the parlor? You
say when their relatives come in there
to see them, those rules are explained
to them, that they must sneak audibly
to the sister. A. No, there Is no such
rule as sneak audibly to the sister. It
is the rule of the institution. That is
not said to theni all. the sinter -imply
accompanies them to the parlor.
O. It Is the duty of the sister to do
what? A. It Is the duty 0f the slater
to accompany the child to the parlor.
O. And hear tb conversation? A.
The parlor different sizes. The par
lor where the rhlld-en nd the sisters
are, Is rather small. We have a par
lor Interior and exterior parlor.
Q. Now have you or not you hsve
escapee from there, once In a while,
don't you? A. (Laughing) Indeed I
have.
0. Have you hrd any lately? Why,
yes, I think there are some of them In
the court-room.
0. How manv? A. In the court
room? 0. Well, but how many escapes do
you remember In the last year?
A. Last year I think there were six
escapes.
O. Who were they? A, They were
I will not mention their names, that
Is not rleht. If you want to know
their class nam.-s, I will give them.
Q. I would like to know their true
names. A. I certainly shall not give
them. I protect the charaeter of
thoae under me.
O. Y'ou say they are here? A.
Many of them.
O. Do vnn know a girl hv the name
of Jennie Purdy? A. Purdv? I do not
rememher the name Purdy.
O. Well, when yon do have escapes,
bow manv have you had escape from
that Institution? I am not sneaking
now about thoe that were committed
hv the city of St. Paul, but outside of
that bow manv escapes have von had
from there In the last five years, since
you have been there? A. Indeed I
could not tell you.
0. Just give me A. I haven't the
sliehtest idea.
0. Suppose aa manv
dozen a year? A. It mleht be; and
sumo yenrs none at an, I think.
Q. Mind T am ereliirilnv th ASA i4
were ever committed by the Municipal
Kuuri or me nry or St. Paul. And. by
the W8V. Jld von ever have an nm
. . . ,.u . w I. II V Will
mitments from any other courts? A.
r rum any otner courts. Well, not ex
actly commitment T have hart crtrla
sent from other places.
w. res, but you never had any
COUrtS Commit nrtaonara Oisni
cent the Municipal? A. I had no com-
iwiuiems rrom any otner court
Q. When any of these escapes take
place what do von do? A. If they
are over aee, we let them go. Be
cause the reason why. If they are over
aee they are only there to piease their
parents, and if hey want to go thev
may bo at anv time thev want to it
they are under age we are responsible
ior mem, we try, ir possitle, to re
cover them.
Q. So you mean to say that If thev
are over a thev can go at any time?
A. Any time thev wnt t-
Q. And have you ever. In the last
year, attempted to get bark girls who
were over ae. In anv way, by send
ing police officers after them? A.
Not when they are over age that I re
member. Q. Have you sent the police offl
cers after any Inmates? A. I have
reported them when they were over
are or under are I have renorted
them.
Q. Will you pleaae give me the
name of those you reported? A.
One we called Emma and the other we
called Eva.
Q. Now, did you report any others?
A. No, answer.
Q. During the last two years have
you reported escapes oi other in
mates? Why. certainly.
Q. Did you report them to the po
lice to have the police bring them
bark? A. They were under age.
Q. Didn't the police ever bring
any of those escape bark to you? A.
I don't think thev did without the par
enta bringing them.
Q. W'lll vou rwear that thev have
not returned. Wl'hnilt h narant'a In.
terferenee at all, at least 10? Oh. In
deed. I could swar that. I don't re
memberto th s lest of my knowledge
I I remember the policemen bringing
! back none without their parents say
ing so. I don't remember any one In
stance. Q. But you do remember of the po
lice brlnrln thm back? A. Detec
tives when their parents told them so.
did ouite recently. In the last three
I weeks.
O. Have the police brought any
bark to you within the last three
j weeks? A. I thlr.k it was about
, three weeks not a policeman, a moth
! er broiieM back one that ran away, In
tne last three weeka.
O. What was her name? A. I
ran't teU von. Wo call her Grace.
o. Whieh ward was she In A.
Sewlnr department.
O. Since vour fln-e fvon have hen
there for the U't five years) abont
nw many Inmates have yon had In
these two wardr? A. I would cer
talnlv have to eonanlt tne hooka to re-
member, t resl'y don't remember.
' O. Can't von elve an Moat 1
N"t the allehtesf.
O. About what fma of dav was It
when the ntntiff entered vour huUd
Inr? A. If T rememher rightly t was
" the evening, but I did not receive
her.
o. But yon thtnk it was in the event"-?
A. Yes. sir.
O. Your socletv. you sav. own and
control thla bnl'dinir? A hoot what
the cot of that building? A.
Well. T don't eraetlv know I would
have to consult the books for that.
11. If. coat von about a hundred
thousand dollarn A. T think so.
O. And about what did the grounds
r-oat von A Wei', thev were hnno-,t
Wore T rie. And the buildings
were rm before I came In eharee.
O. Now these rules and testations
that were n force In that ward ao-
p'lad to evarv Inmate of tha ward
a"Ve, dMn't thev? A. Uniformlv.
O. What work did the plaintiff do
durlnsr the time she was in this ward,
do voi, know what was her particular
work? A. Tf T mistake not as well as
T know, and rememher hearing, she
did sewln part of the time and wash
In? and Ironing part of the time.
O. But as a rule she did washing
and ironlne? A I think so:T know
R"e did Ironing: whethr she did wash
ing or not I don't know, either or
much of It
O, Now when she made this escape,
how soon after that that eha
. .... w.u,. ...'Hi. i j 1 1 r" naa
I hrone-ht back, or came back, aa you
niu it, now aoo.i after that were you
informed of the circumstances? A.
I think it was immediately after; the
same dav anyway,
Q. You sav that she cut her hand?
A. It was reported to me; I did not
see the cut.
0. Did you have any conversation
with her at all at that time? A. I
never, to the best of my knowledge,
had a private e0nveraation with the
girl save on tivo or three occasions.
Q. At this time did you have? A.
Q. Or within a month or three
weeks? A. No, sir, I don't remem
ber, I don't think so
O. Did you investigate the facts
and circumstances at that time? A.
Yes, it was reported to me exactly; I
innulred the cause, etc.
Q. And then that settled the Inci
dent, you say? A. The which?
. Q. I say that settled the incident
A. Yes.
Q. Now what sort of a hohlt aa ah.
have on? A. We don't rail it a hov.it
no one but the religious wear a habit.
Q. What do you call It? A. She
wore a black dress with a cape.
Q. Was It worn by any particular
class In there? A. By those that are
supposed to be the best of all that Is
there, by our society. They never
get this dress but when their onii,t
Is supposed to be exemplary.
0. And when thev p-nt thla Jnm u
- - j n ' ". "i ii i i i'v, 1 u
Is a badge. A. It Is suppooed that
they are pretty good girls. I
Q. Well, does that behavior (badge)
relate to their conduct In here, both
for behavior and work too? A. Work
has nothing to do with it.
Q.- It is for their good behavior
outside of the work? A. For their
moral conduct
Q. IN THIS PARTICULAR WARD
THE PLAINTIFF WAS IN. WAS
SUGAR FURNISHED. PLACED UP
ON THE TAHLE WITH THEIR
FOOD? A. SVGt R IS NOT PLACED
UPON THE TABLE, BUT THEIR
COFFEE, ETC.. IS SUGARED. I
Q. WELL, WAS IT FLACFD UP- '
ON THE TABLE? A. NO. SIR.
Q. Where Is the food prepared? A
In the main kitchen of the building.
Q. Where is that? It Is the sis
ter's department? A. In the sisters'
department
Q. And the sisters prepare the food?
A. The sisters and two children '
that department I
Q. And the food Is then carried and
placed on the table In these two re
formatories? A. In the refectory
dining-room.
O. NOW ART? TTTEY ALLOWED
BUTTER ON THE TABLE THERE
TO EAT? A. CERTATN1.Y THEY
ARE, BUT NOT AT EVERY MEAL.
WE COULDN'T AFFORD IT.
0. Are they allowed milk on the
table? A. Their milk Is put In the
coffee.
0. But that Is all the milk they
get? A. Yes, the children get a
glass of It
Q. What do they have at noon?
They have tea twice a day, you say,
and coffee once? A Yes, sir.
Q. They have no milk furnished
them at any time, except to put In
their coffee? A. No, none to drink.
Q. Are they usually given pepper
on the table? A. Their food Is sea
soned for them.
Q. Their breakfast conatsU of what?
A. It varies. Every day I think tkey
are different
Q. About what Is It the usual fare?
A. Well, they get perfectly good
home-made bread, at every meal.
For their brerkfaat they get that
and this coffee, and they get what we
call hash, that Is. fresh meat bought
from Kasmlrsky Brothers.
Q. Hash and bread? A. Let sae
testifiy: Hash, bread and coffee, one
meal. If they don't get butter. If
they get butter, they don't get haah,
as we can't afford to give a variety a
hotel fare. On Wednesdays they get
white bread, coffee and corn-bread,
and molasses. That Is the breakfast
Q. I am talking now just com.
mence at Mondav and give me Mon
day' dinner, breakfast and supper?
A. Now the sister may vary It, wltk
my permission. It is my permission
to vary it at any time the children
don't like special food. The general
run Is that. They get bread and hash,
and coffee for breakfast, or mnsh.
Now. I will give you the breakfast hll
of fare: Butter, corn-bread, and mo
and molasaes. That Is the breakfast,
and coffee for breakfast, or mush,
Q. If they get the corn-bread, they
get neither the brsh nor the mush? A.
No.
0. SO IT IS REALLY TWO
THINGS, BREAD AND ONE SUB
STANCE? A. ONE SUBSTANW
AND COFFEE.
Q. Now for dinner? A. For din
ner they get soup, generally two
kinds of vegetable, always fresh
meat and tea and bread.
Q. What are the vegetables? A,
Potatoes.
i Q. And what else? A. Lettuce.
cabbage.
Q. But potatoes forms one, I sup
pose, of the vegetables that yon men
tion? A. Yes.
Q. Then meat you say, and sonp?
A. Yes.
0. Now for 'upper, what? A. For
tinner thev e-et either butter when
they get one they don't get the other
either butter, molasses and bread, or
hash again, or stew made out of fresh
meat, or prunes or apples baked ap
ples, or fresh apples.
0. IF THEY GET ONE, YOU SAT,
THE OTHERS YOtl SAY THEY DO
NO GET. A. THEY DO NOT.
0. SO IT IS EITHER TEA. BUT
TER AND BRTTAD, OR TEA AND
HASH? A. YES.
Q. OR TEA AND PRUNES A
YES, AND WITH BREAD
Q. Of course, bread all the time.
A. Fresh bread.
Q. Or bread ind prunes? A. Yea.
Q. And tea, and bread and applet?
A. Yes.
Q. You have a great many other
there besides these two wards? A.
No, the same food goes to all.
Q. How many sisters have yoa
there? A. Thirty-five.
Q. You feed them there? A. Sam
way.
Q. You have the Magdalenes there?
A. The same food goes to them.
Q. How many of them? A. Thirty.
I told you before; about between
thirty-two and thirty-three. Same
food goes to them.
Q. You say the sisters there feed
upon the same diet aa these? A. I
say the sisters get the same groceries
and meat that the children do.
Q. Do you remember when the Su
preme Court made a decision stop
ping the commUment of prisoners by
the city? A. Y'es
y. When was that decision made?
A. I don't remember; some time In
March I think.
Q. What year? A. That I don't re
member. Two years ago I think la
March.
Q. Two years ago next March. Now
at that time did you have any of the
city prisoners in there? A. To the
best of my knowledge I don't re
member any. I think there was one,
I don't remember any.
Q. Do you remember the city pass
ing a resolution and coming out and
serving it on you to release any pris
oners there at tUat time that yon had
belonging to the city? A. I don't re
member that I was eerved with a no
tice. Q. You were informed of that reso
lution? A. I was Informed that there
was such a resolution passed, but I
don't think it whs served on me that
I remember of.
Q. But you remember that they
passed such a resolution? A. I saw
it through the papers.
Q. And since that time, or at that
time, did you release all that were
committed by the? A. As I said, I
don't think I had any committed by
the court Just then.
Q. Now isn't It a fact that you re
tained some prisoners there after that
resolution came? A. None but those
who wished to remain.
Q. Well, that Is not the question.
Didn't you keep any there? A. I re
peat, none but those who asked me to
keep them.
Q. Well, that is not the question
sister; the question Is did any remain?
A. Some remained, of their own fren
will.
Q. What were their names? A,
Well, there Is now one there that wan
a city prisoner oi.ee; I don't say she
was a prisoner at the time the court
made the decision, but she was once a
city prisoner; her name In our Insti
tution now is E'izabeth. And that to
the only one that I remember of.
Q. You say there was one named
what? A. I doa't know whether she
was a city prisoner at the time,
whether her time had expired or that
she remained of her own free will, but
we had one who remained who waa
called Veronica.
Q. That was Josle Anderson? A. I
don't remember what her name waa
outside of that
Q. Does your record have the ages
marked upon It? A. The ages they
give us, I think It does. I am not re
sponsible for what they tell us, yon
know.
Q. Now concerning Miss Clewett.
was she allowed to go out doors and go
down town or where she pleased? A.
Certainly not
Q. Then during this time that she
was In there, she had the liberty of
this ward? A. Had the liberty of
the grounds belonging to that ward
and the whole ward.
Q. And nothing further? A. No.
Q. During the time she waa In there
did she do her work well? A. That
I don't know.
