(TS!n 'if ft
Ke ommonei:
NOvEMBBB, -W
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f
r
t would dismember - theJroad forlnterstate
pUMrSBryan. Not at all. ' Jr? .
?I- a-miprfl of Indiaiia, How would itop-
wr. w ,
erate?
)' "'!'
mi.. 1.inKl tVn4- -VaA . Vrtifrtl
tt. nrvan. i" ""lu ". """ ."" M
.. .' in Illinois would act in conjunction
2th the board that had control- Indiana, ,i M g "
,f 1 a Government road, or, if a priyafe own- hSh?to
haye the power companies controlled in the same
twnt tB70-' 611' !'fou VlardonN4l
wlh1 n ,rr?ied.-. -W,? big enTugh
P,sz;:;r
jt WAS ... tUn manntra.r 'n.nd thevCwniilrl sir-
Jango'for their joint; .opjffatloriy '' Yen would
ha to assume that a road A would not look-out
for Us own interests in order to. take any othp"
.position
rs& 8TXS!
anv railroad companV frbmv enfeagiug 'in inter-
slate commerce? '"..,.,., . . " .y , '
Mr Bryan. No; and I think you can safely
leave 'that matter to the United States, Thd Ind
eral Government will really' selthe price-' and
terms of mtersiaie cvwuiuiw. .
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. "What would be qur
estimate of the number of years tliat It w'o'uld
take to put that plan into effect? ; " "'
Mr. Bryan.' I would not attempt to'j;u6ss,
because it would be merely7 a guess, and;'feex:
perience has led me to be a little cauttourftbWt
fixing a time. It is easier to' tell the' difrgctfon
of the wind than to measure its velocity" ft is
easier to tell the trend of events than, At is to
tell how soon a thing wllj.be accomplished."' ; ,
Mr. Sanders of Indiana.. Would you, release,
any of the Federal control after that nJLan.jiad
been adopted, .or would 011 "continue Federal
control until it had been" completely adopjtpd.f n
Mr. Bryan. I, think tla,t would liayato",!)
determined by the conditions as .. Jeae
There is this general. propostyipji that J b.aYfc,$k
ways gone onrnamlytlia't.the.peoplQwluhav.e.
as muclj sense td-hi Vro. as they haye tpa,
and probably more light., ?b,eref ore youan.gjifgfj
ly leave until tbmorVaw' fh v.de'clsioji u
t'ions tha,t can not be deemed tq-dayp t J M T
Mr. Sanders ,'pf Indiana." H.B.u,tinfpillatin'g
a plan we have, to 4ecUb n spietihjav
wonderipg. whet her jn y.our Apt $ &u
purpose to continue Federal,, .control umU jail
the States had adopted your plan ox whepr It
was your nurnpaetfiajf w&m tjlinpi say, hd'
adopted the plan Federal control woulpo, with
drawn.
'M.r'y'anf,rt
lino reached but, tytp'V-ry. StattiYs cpntrdCoveV;
interstate cominercV Would5,, r think, bo. mHr ef
fective than tinder any commission cr-bdarSfr
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. " Then W'o'uld" y'ou
release Federal control?- . '. " .
Mr. Bryan. It might be possible to release'.!
but I do not think it is necessary to decide- that
question until we. reach it. .," !. w
Mr. Sanders o.f Indiana". Of course; jri!framlfig
this bill you would have ;to "extend TederaT'oftV
trol to a certain time.' " ' -'
Mr. Bryan. My own opinion is that th Fed
eral ownership and operation of a trtink-ffne
system would .not. only be much more effective
than any law or regulation, but would; .make the.
01 er regulation '. 1 nnecessary.
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. Would not general
Federal control on part of the lines, and State
control on other lines leave the railroad, situa
tion in somewhat of a jumble? ,'
Mr. Bryan. I do not. think so. . My opinion
s that when you have eliminated-the selfish in-.
wrests you have eliminated the real difficulties;
wnen you have only the public interest to serve.
1 win not be difficult for the people to agree as
to what ought to be done. .
fn u Sanders of Indiana. What is your opin
dustr the Same general plan for the coal in-
llr,Mr- Bryan- Well, I do .not think the same
Tto s necessarily involved.
Air. Sanders of Indiana. -Do you favor Gover
T worship of coal mInes?
tin 11 yan X would-want' to hear the.ques
n L ?v.ssed bofore- I attempted to attach- it
10 any other question . . :- .
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. Do -you favor-Gover-nent
ownership of- the traction lines?
Mr o Tyaln' l eve in municipal ownership.
ownJ; bnders ot Indiana. How about. the State
Mr V tractio lines?
tho QiJryan My Preference would be to have
;, e s wn the. Jnterurban line's ;that were
this 1,1 1 clty ('nd l SGe no objection to putting
the cSIo ? thin together, because, you .see, if .
simniv iQ owned the. railroad lines .it would
them vK addIn the intercity traction lines, to
Pedrni y wour hardly be embraced' in the
to Ltr?nkllno Mtem. - - '
tion nande,rs of Indiana. And since the trac
nes also control the powqf, ;Vould you
vheth?ra?h.ei f Ind,ana X was wondering
IK ?KU suggested would-be neces-
Pfibfe utilities. uovornraent ownorahlp of all
Mr. Bryan. I am in favor of every natural
opportuntiy being owned-by tho Government
Whenever competition is impossible and a niono-
it should be
1 n ,.
- ' , --' - "" uo u uuverniuoni
luuuiiuiy. uiai 1 nave stated as a 'universal
proposition.: . ..
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. That proposition
has never been in the platform of either party?
Mr. Bryan. No. -.'
Mr. Sander of Indiana. Although it has
always been in the platform of tho Socialist
puny, nas it not?.
Mr. Bryan.
Wnll T nm nn rnm(1tn- ...ill. -11
, --"- .. w..,, a uux ui. l.tvlUltUi WJL11 UJ1
liu iJmnKB in me piatiorm or tlio Socialist Party,
but if you say so I will ,take your, wprd for it.
Mr. Sander)3 pf Indiana. And was it not
in the Populist platform of 1892?
Mr. Bryan. I could not say; it may have been.
I think we have tikon nearly everything out. of
the Populist platfounV ai-d made it into law.
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. And this the fir -.1
step?
-Mr. Bryan. If you make that reference with
th& idea of casting reflection on it,you . will
Mve t- reflect on the people who yoted for the
m"0.ctn o .Senators by" the people and for r.n
iUCQme tak. , ;
'Mr. Sanders o Indiana. I did not intend '1
djast; any reflections, at all.
-Mr, Bryan Wetti I am willing to begin with
the assumption that the people have not yet be
gun to consider'1 this question as a practical
question on, which they, will have to act,, and -it
iy 'because I desire, to have thdm consider this
Plata, . with other plans, that I am here to-day.
Mr: Hamilton. ' You ''have cdvered the ground
very fully and I will' not detain you htorti than-a
nfonient. '-"' '.'- "
'MK Bryan. 1 am at your 'service.
Mr. Hamilton. I would like to'get a little
irTfVrinatlon; ':'Dh,d6'r:'Srb,ur.l'pIari I take 'it the
Government .would. control the strong roads, the
paying roads, whereas tho State roads wo..ld pay
much less," I means as revenue producers; rould
that" be the fact? -
Mr. Bryan. .No; if 'you will pardon tie
Mi4. Hamilton. I am asking for your views on
that.
Mr. Bryan. I supposed you stopped . for
tie answer. No; it Is not at all necessary that
.the trunk line shall be. the only paying line. For
instance, as you go south "from here you will
find three great railway lines the Southern,
the Seaboard, and tho Atlantic Coast Line. ' It
would not be necessary for the Government to
tako mo-'o than one of those lines; in fat, 't
would not be ne::-;sary for the Goernment to
take any of them, because I would want the law
drawn in such a way that the Governi-ont could"
either construct or buy; if it were privileged to
construct'it would have less difficulty in buying.
B t I would want the power of the Government
complete, so that it could either build or buy.
Now. if it bought cno of those lines it would
not b necessary for it to buy the best ,-ayJng
line. All. it would want to do would be to get
tho line that would best suit its purpose as a
national artery, and it might not be tLe best
paying Hkj. . So it does not follow -
Mr Hamilton. I was speaking of the State
lines tajping the trunk line, not thinking so
much of interstate transportation.
Mr Bryan. Well, you see there would bo
many of these lines that would be merely parts
of an interstate line, and there would ba no
reason why tho traffic on these should be less
than it is to-day, but it would have to conform to
government rates and government conditions
I. seethe point you are driving at, and I
im nrenared to answer it. I take It for
Wanted that, if the government owned and
Snerated a trunk line reaching into every
Stato the Government, because of the
Quantity of business It could do, could make a
?IarSfnn the trunk line than it would be
1 r7nr i.p qtate to make on tnc state
PiOB8ijIh5 is the point you have in mind. But
fies. That Is tne po im. u Government
here is the ZVerchauklBlint! the Wo' at
bringa a plwe of inerchaMwe
f ''S6 the? 5 e branch 'line that carries It to the
PiS 'whew it to to be used could charge a high-
or rato than the present rate, and yel the total
ratpim.ght bo lees Chan the 'present lotal rato;
that is, tho reduction on tho through Wcmight
bo so great that the" addition, to tho local rato
would not bring It up to what tho total rato l
now.
Mr. Hamilton. Per milo, yes, tyit in tho ag
gregate tho Stato lino would bo. porhaps of
course, it would ditto- in tho different, Mates,
the Stato haulago would not bo very groafr Vj
Mr. Bryan. On tho contrary, It would ?Ve
very much groater than is now entimateU. " 'At
prosont they figuro that- about 80 per !ont'6
It is Interstate com-norco. ., r
Mr. Sims. Klghty-fivo per cent .
Mr. Bryan. I henrd it ostimatod at 80 per
cent. t
Now how dp (hey got that? fThoy take ovpry
item that goes out of a Stato Into another Stato
But when yoi have these other linos, Joirit
lilies, and only one trunk line, tho amount 'car
ried ovor tho Government line might be very
much less than '85 per cont,, because traffic on
these other lines that aro part in one Stato and
part in anppior vouid then be counted as Stato
traffic.
Mr. Hamilton. It would bo local traffic? :
Mr. Bryan. It would b,o local traffic, so . that
tho local traffic might bo very much larger un,--r
this system of a trunk lino, with tho Stato
owning tho reBt. ,
Mr. Watson. I was a littlo surprised a"t ..a
statement you made, when you said that rail
roads under prlvato control wouid not bo gov
erned by polities as thoy would under Govern
ment contrDl. : '
Mr. Bryan; I beg pardon. Aro you stat
ing what you mettti?'
I.Ir. Watson, t yap stating what I thought, you
said. I understood' you to say that ther. ero
more politick unljor private control-than under
Government cnn"trdl. , .
LIr, Bryan.. Oh, yes.' I thought you rovcriod
ijtx. ypur. qu,est!r, ,; ' ', '
Mr. Watson .Take.Gaoada, for ,instanco. There
politics control thOijaJlroads. It Is not so muc.li
a question of efficiency as it is a question of how
many votes an, omplpye .can control at tho elec
tion.. ,.lr?tralia also. Tho. Government con
trols. 9.0 ..per jpen.t, prthu rj-ilrwi'tH, or. has-copr
' trolled' that percentage Under pure "Uovcrn
. ment management politics entered Jnto the ques
tion, to such an extent that Government owner
ship was a failure there, and the laws were
changed. ' Therefore, from my observation and
what I have learned,, there Is more politics under
Government control than undor private manage
ment. Mr. Bryan. Well, of course, men differ in
opinion on that, possibly, as on other questions,
but. I am glad -you asked tho question, for this
reasons -1 only answered with one suggestion,
and I am glad to add a thought that is brought
out by your question and which I ought to havo
added, but did not recall it at the time. I havo
simply givon my reason for Uliovjng that there
will be more politics vJth the private managers
In control than with the Government In contrql;
bt I want to say this: That when the Govern
ment is in c-. 'rpl I believe the people would In
sist upon rules and regulations that would make
It Impossible for. tho employee to bo used : 1
politics. . Not only do I think that, as a Ooneral
proposition, baccd upon tho belief that tho peo
ple will always do that which they think Is neces
sary for their welfare; but I think there is a way
In which that can be done. I would change pur
civil service system In inich a way as to elimin
ate the possibly of pplitical control, and I think
It could be done by a very small change In the
system. The plan would be- this, to have the ex
iiinations continue so that tho man must shew
ho is qualified before he Is placed on tho eligible
list, but when he Is on tho eligible list, instead
of concealing his politics, I would havo him state
his politics, and then I would have the .ppolnt
ments made from tho oliglble list in jropqrtfqn
to the voting strength of the parties, so that eacT
party would have in the classified service Its;
proportionate representati n, If It could furnlch
eligible candidates, as shown by examinatjpjis,, r
Under that plan, t 0 politics ct the people, la -the
service being the same as outside', the beiri
divided in the same proportion they could have;
no . c ': on politics. Instead of saying to 'vC
man, "You must keep out of politics, wlifch I
think Is rather an offense against Amerldan ideas',
we can tell the man In the Government, fieryb
that has the same I'.ht to his convictions as any
body outside, that his citizenship Is npt're.sjcreb? 1
or II Ited by the fact-that he is In tliercir
Mr. Watson. Perhaps, your Ideas areStfdetr .
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