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UJnt atfi
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Dual Plan for Ownership and
Operation or
i. ;-f . ,
4 . :
" f) t? ,
''i7flelow't4Vls tho balance df tho statement of
Mr. BPyan before tho committee on ' Interstate
andrJBprelgn Commorco of the House of Repre
sentatives,' August 29, 1919. The first .part of
tho; statement was printed in the October Com
moner. Associate Editor.
Railroads
present time-: that ia ovn ....
tion?- T . SHaung that qne$.
Mr. Bryan. ' No, sir.
' - Mr Sweet. - It would m
get public opinion behind a nnI?a7' th"Uo
in each of the States? V a plan of that ki
Mr. Bryan. Yds
kind
; '
'IV
- Mr.. Bryan. I think probably it would "be
brbught' to earth before they would' commence
to lib' it;' ' '' ' " , ,
Mr; Winslow. How dp you .think this plan
nl yours .would affect tho high cost of -living?
M'r, Bryan. That is a pertinent question. ,
Mr. "Window. I mentionqjd it because when a.
very prominent plan has, b0on.,suggested it has
boon said that if it would work the high cost of
living would be endod, and I wanted to know. How
you think this plan would affect, the high cost of
living. , ....
Mr. Bryan. Well, I believe that anything that .
eliminates unnecessary cost tends to feduce-the
cost of lining, and Ibolievothat the Government
owhorshlp of railroads wouldhavo the same ef-'
'feet upon ratos, which enter into tho cost crf rllv- t
ing, that tho Government ownership of writer .'
plants has h. d c'n I' j cost of water to the' people:
A hundred yoars ago about; 16 cities. out of 17
had privato cororatlons owning their water
plants. I think to-day more than 16 out of 17
citlc-- own their own water plits.. , The tendency
Js from private ownership, to tpyernment owner-,
ship In tho matter of water .plants; that mo.ve-.
mont has been constant ahd Irresistible. A" few
years ago I had a chance to make a comparison
'between tho privately owned plant Mir" dmiaha
and the city-owned plant ln'Linc61n NebrV 0na
'hais more than twico as large" a aity as Lincoln.
The people, I found, paid twice as much per gal
lon of water. in Omaha, where they bought, it
from a privato company, as the people 'did in
Lincoln? and in-Lincoln 'the city furnished Itself,
water without charge, while in- Omaha the,.clty
had -.to buy the water, from tho private plant,
which made it cost tho citizens of Omaha really
more than twice the cost in Lincoln.
Now, I believe ".that the- natural effect, and
tho offoct" as shown by e;xpor!entfo,: of a' transi-
tlon from private ownership .- 'to Government
ownership proves that it is economy by giving
tho people a bettor service at a lower cost. , '
' Mr. Winslow. That is one side, of. it. In-tho
State of Massachusetts, where I live tho only gas
and electric-light companies that have taken, ad
vantage of the opportunity to become municipal
plants have all gone the other way.
Mr. Bryan. Yes. '
Mr. Winslow. You get every thing. centralized j
and they do1 not work in conjunction with the
water works of any other town; It is a complete
unit, which is in direct opposition1 to t e sug
gestion of tho trunk line and innumerable
branches. '
Mr. Bryan. The electric'rlight plant at Jack
sonville, Fla'., .was taken over' by. tlie city, ahd
the result there was a reduction in the "price of
the service.
Mr. Winslow. Of courso, thai would lead to
a proper review. .
One more question: I would like to ask you
if you have in mind framing a bill, or having
some one present a bill, to cover your plan?
-Mr. Bryan. No; I have no such thought in
mind. I had no further plau in mind than ap
pearing here, and I only appear hero because I
saw other plans were being presented, and, be
lieving that the public mind Jib now open on this
question, I thought that I might present this plan
andget consideration for.it that I was not able '
to gqt at otLer times when the public was not
tjtimking on the subject.
' Mr. Denlson. You nay have expressed your
Yjewfi, before I came int tho room in reference
tp-thp question that I am going to ask, and if
you did you need not repeat them. I wanted to
ask you whether or not you think that the so
calia :Sftms Plwi or the Plumb plan, as embodied
in the Hms bill, would be a good thing for this
county?, . . ,
'WiP&W I Jave not felt one could safely
WWiliJM; question "yes" or "no," because if
one.mata an answer "yes" or "no" to ttiaUM
atam.entjs apt to go out-without qualification '
,'
and lie is put in a position that is not his true, po
sition. I would not want to. answer whether the
plan is good or bad, because, It might seem dike
an indorsement of It, or a condemnation of it. I
'have pointed out two or. three .things that I
thought wore good,, and I hare pointed out spme
tiling that I thought, were bad, "simply in" con;
junction with the-discussion. .-.-. .
Mr. Sweet. Now Col. Bryan, you h.avespokon
somowhat favorably of, the Plumb plan. Daou
believe it would be possible. tot put that plan in
operation in each of the States? .
Mr. Bryan. I hope you' will hot leave your
question just as it is, because it d6es not exactly
state my position. I have declined to' express
an opinion on the plan, for or against' if. I have
taken outv certain things .and commended tlipm.
and 'certain other things aud condemned theffii
-Mr. Sweet. I will piit it, tjeu, ssome feaKires
of the Plumb plan." ' "
Mr.Bfyan. Yes. ' ' ',' ' t
v Mi4. Sweet. Do ybu'belieYfi thaf it is desirable
to have Governing ow'rfershi'p bt; the propeifty
and private operation? ' " ' '"'' ' ..;; t
Mr. Bryan. Well, I would answer that ap'f
once had to answer a 'question" in Congress': That,
if .p, burglar was in my' tfouse arid I cdjilct jjet
'badk half bi what he-haft' taken", or ri'onel I woulff
take half. And so, if I could not get part of tn
thing, I would take it rather than get"' 'nothing'.'
ButT would prefer to have the dover.hmeri.t "both
own and operate, and 'not'merely bVri. in bo&i
State and-Nation. ' ' . ';' ' ''"
Mr., Sweet. Both State W Nation,?. ' ' Z ' ,?,-!
Mr. Bryan. Both State, an d .NatYon; yes,.,sfr,
Mr. Sweet. So,, then, ypu doot beHwahat
tho. founders qt our fprm of .'Government po
templated that the Government, a'such sliQuld
ever operate or manage business? . '.." 7,
. Mr. Bryan. Well, there is a clause in our.Con-
stitution, you knqwthatgiyes Congress conirol
overki5terAtate co.mmerpe , n,; ,,
Jtfr. Sweet. Do you ..think it.goes to fho, extent
of operating business? ' V.' ' '
Mr. Bryan. I think, this: Tha,tVhen -you, come
to a condition. that has developed since the Con
stitution was written; but is simply . jthe' develop
.mont of the thing, for which it provided, 'it is
onlyjair.to construe the Constitution as'perrait
tlng natural, logical, economical, and political
development of a. right that it did recqgnlze oven'
before the necessity, for .development was an-,
parent. So, r would not think, there was. any
constitutional difficulty in the way.
Of course, as to whqther a State pould do it
or not might be a different question, because the.
State s constitution might not-authorize the State
government to deal with that; it might requira
an amendment to the constitution of the State
vo ' -enable it to own and; operate the railroads..
But I have never .felt so much concern as toi
whether a constitution has a provision in it or
not, because I have seen constitutions amended
when the people wanted them, amended, and r
nanVgfnH0n the,theory iat the constitution be
longs to the people, and to the people living and
not to the people deadthat the people living
can make It what they want it to be, and that thl
SmpDnei i TVy StatG have !t in their power to
amend their constitution so as to permit the
people to do whatever the people want to i0
it woufdWSkftAW !?g d U contePte that
nloTttoBuS yUr Plan in Peration ln
Mr Bryan, if the constitution of tho Stat
would permit, It would not take long if de
constitut ori would not permit it and ft had to
bo amended, it would, take longer. The auestloS
can not be answered with any wctarw.WausS
in different States the constitutional provisions
differ as to how the constitution can be amended
For Instance, in one State you can 8S fl '
amendment at a special etertCwWle n aether
State you can only submit It at a reguli? oul
Mr, Sims. In one State tho legislature mnof
delected aftep. the amendmentTas bn Zt
i3Ir Byan' Yes You see that it differs an 'i
different States. no one rule VW,
Sweet. . Do 'you know 'of. any-State at the
ivir. iiryan. Yes: but vm, i
mpblii&irtg of public' opinion ,onow that the
long, when the people 1 thfnkte' n0t,take M
are not think&Ohe 4o!men "f a08uS,en
conies an active; urgent question thG S,n be
to. work. UI1 ino I'eople Kel
For instance, take the nrnfifl.i
.the fpeople feel' that it XZ nZT
hear; upon their, governor to1 cai Pn a f8,8ure to
of the legislature-'to dea? witn nrontS"1 se8
a. few weeks' 'time you cln ZvlLZ ?S' and la
ncient.' 'But if the pebble5 hay not i90ry,BUf'
theuestlon. ahd cap not Se IZJt il!1
of it as a unt or as a mass, of course t Dk
to take a long, while. It took us 21 yeir Sf1
about, tl;e election of the Senate bv Si? Ing
41 year after it passed th Hmt.?9-
f. ye r tGV passed. the House of Renrer
?jv?'11u " L01C .y years to get the nnftJ
Supremo Court
on grow from a
in mucWless time."' ' uu reiona
C attiehdment adontld StT uJl "e "
nlilliffed'Ahe law. .But prohibitbn?!
W.in.o.r.questiQn until It was i. concluded Z
:' Mr. .Sweet;- Dcyou see any disadvantiitrp in
ftlKlF?.?' Plan and a-t
S-?5Bit8?I-f -t0 t!ie 'ntiment of the States
""vT jtuKi i,i a- " arG ready for Qovern
m?ni Wtjfershlp can' haye It. ' I do not know
""' J. liVi JjJlCV
l?aVvProcess. If a. person desires to en frnnr
olie Yodm to the .room above, lie does not do It
5M$6t ep":' V,uV?ofes fit bv th'e Stairway that
VJ&8 i'SS?1,? ?es to the step; an' so most
HyM'Mm 'J. "t&'ink the plan that I
est'c6tao&te6'itsdlf to the natural pro
CefsJflcJ . tet'l'twbub much easier to in
:aUg:uHvGveirimen,t 'ownership, by that plan
tuiih it .would be; to iiakb it' all once as a Latlonal
pfei)6sttiffi.A'-rf "tV' '" 'l' '
. m .Mr. S-Yet .You believe J.hat. under .your plaY,
tliee'a.cn State wiU Reserve to itself the rights
tq'.wjtch. it !b .naturally entitled? '
TVI$yan. Yes; that Is my 'idea.
; .Mr;s$ajivders" of Indiana. Of 'course, with the
railroad problem pefore us now-"what we want
3 a practical solution;
u.;Bfyan-. test .
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. -Your proposed solu
'ttactwould require. -first, the. a" j)tion of it by
. C.QRgre.ss. We could, ;of .course, issue no edict
. to the States. ' It w'o.uld require tho adoption by
. eaoli of ,the States of the same plan?
?r.Mr,.I?ryan. Yes, sir.
Mw Sanders of Indiana. A great many of the
States 'would-have to change their constitutions.
Some of the States might not adopt tho plan at
alh u-That is quito conceivable, is it not?
- 'MY. Bryan.' No; it Is not conceivable,. if you
will1 pardon me. That is, when a plan is tried
it is either demonstrated to be a success, r r a
faiftif e: If it is demonstrated to be a success, it
is'vonly; fair to assume It will be adopted.
"Mr. "Sanders of Indiana. Of course, the plan
wprndt be in its entirety' until it Is adopted by
all tlie' States. So the plan; as a plan, can not
bo .tested until It is adopted by all the States, M
hence its success or failure could not influence
' any of tho States to' come in.
Mr. Br;yan. Oh, I beg your pardon. The fail
ure of one State to adopt it will not interfere
with .the..dther, States adopting it at all.
Mr. Sanders of Indiana. Well, suppose Illinnlj
does adopt the plan and suppose Indiana m
Wisconsin do not; Now,would Illinois have we
. right to condemn the Pennsylvania Railroau a
the State line,- coming a'cross there and tane
over? - ,
" Mr. Bryan; No; not the interstate line.
Mr. -Sanders of Indiana. Well, you aireaoy
have' the national .
' Mr. Bryan (interposing): I thought you meani
' the Government line. ' it could condemn wv
.payt of any other line; it can to-day.
Pennsylvania can condemn the individual spr j
' erty'doyoii doubt the" State that gave it'
right can go out and condemn the railroau.
- ..Mr. Sanders of Indiana. It is TdU
. that the .Staja .of Illinois cpuld condemn
of ah inter;stateraijrpad and control h.
A
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